Ben H. Swett
Winchester, VA
26 August 1990

From the 1990 journal of First Century group: part of the tape-recorded transcript of a three-day retreat at Rocky's home near Winchester, Virginia.

Ben: Okay, let's recap (reviewing his notes). Friday evening we went through an agenda session and a general clean-up. Saturday morning we had a session before lunch: the evaluation game. At lunch we talked about the Beatitudes: "meek" means tractable or steerable; the Greek word translated "poor" actually means "beggars" and invokes the image of an Oriental beggar actively asking, seeking, knocking. Saturday afternoon, we went down town to the book store. Then group prayer for guidance for Rocky and Ruth. Later that night a demon district supervisor walked into the living room. Sunday morning, Rocky and Loren went to church. I worked some sessions with Carol. That's basically what we've done to this point.

Just to fill in the record, from time of arrival to this afternoon, many people have noted a lot of activity, a lot of stuff, going on around here. I have run, I don't know how many forms of detachment since I've been here: house and grounds, expansion of light to a half mile circle, expansion of light to a mile circle. Carol picked up the thought of a grave-yard over there somewhere, down the hill. After I went to bed I was still getting the feeling: "More work, more work," so I extended my antenna in all directions. I got a strong impression of black witchcraft, with a sense of orientation over the other side of the hill and down. Wonder if there's an old Sabbat site down there.

Rocky: Loren was mentioning that in church. I said there's a log cabin camp-ground right over the hill. But it's a camp-ground, and I don't know what kind of groups, or what else might go on there. I can check that out with a few little inquiries.

Loren: You left out the devil that the two girls found last night. Just before you went to bed.

Carol: That was the District Supervisor.

Loren: You cleaned him out, and you said the angels or helpers were saying "Hallelujah" like they'd been looking for this guy for a long time and finally found out where he was.

Ben: What happened was this: we were sitting out here on the porch talking, Fred and Loren and I. Fred went to bed, and I was about ready to go. Carol and Becky came out and said, "There's something in the next room that is big, bad, dark, and un-good." So I went in there and sure enough, goose-bumps on parade. So I armored, called for help, and got a lot of response from the warrior-angels.

They encapsulated that dark one with hard light rather than a bubble of light. Then something else happened that I didn't do--two things. First, the angels put two layers of hard-light shields on that dark one. Then an angel came up with light-ropes and they tied up the whole package, like tying up a ball, and pushed it in a box of hard light and tied that up. The result was one very unhappy devil, very thoroughly bound. My thought was, "Okay, now get him out of here and take him away for conversion," but I wasn't sure how they could do that, what with all the wrappings.

Someone popped into my mind the image of a forklift. Then someone else came up with the bright idea of just rolling the whole thing out that way somewhere (points with his hand), right through the wall. And that's what they did. So the goose-bumps were gone; I went back out on the porch, and that was that.

Rocky: Maybe I'll be able to sleep at night. I wake up at one or two and stay awake for an hour or two.

Ben: After I went to bed I had this feeling of black witchcraft somewhere down over the hill, so I extended a bubble of light over that way. This was when I thought I heard angels saying "Yippee!" as they pounced on whatever was down there. I kept trying to watch and help all I could. Then suddenly, someone a lot larger than I am did a neat little piece of thought-forming: an instant geodesic half-dome. Just created one, then another. Then someone slammed the two half-domes together to form a ball, and went around and sealed the edges together. Someone else said "Okay!" and things felt quiet. Again, I don't know whether any of that was real, but that's what I saw. We may have to work it.

Loren: What I sense is that bubble-light won't necessarily hold some things: it's not strong enough. They may need tougher encasement material.

Becky: Some get out of bubbles like someone can run through fire: they don't like it, they fear it, but they'll run through it to get out.

Loren: I'm sitting here shielded and can't see any of this. Maybe that's a blessing.

Ben: Yes, maybe it is.

A good chunk of what I did with Carol this afternoon was in being led to help her see her house, her spiritual body, and popping out dents, and patching the hole, and learning how to radiate her own light and let it build layer by layer to strengthen her house. We've been told again and again and again, by different entities, that she has a hole in her aura, in her self-space. So we were trying to get that welded shut and hermetically sealed. Also a dent. While the dent was there she was seeing imploding bulls-eyes. I was led to say to her, "Pop the dent out." With some help, she popped the dent out and the bulls-eyes stopped. This may be a major tool for her. I always rejoice when someone gets good tools and learns how to use them.

Also in that session, Carol said she had been feeling stuffy or bloated or impacted across the upper abdomen. I got quiet and asked the Lord what that was. To my surprise, I got the word "insects" and an image of something like a flower full of insects. I understood that the flower is Carol's solar chakra, and I called for a demon rescue team to remove the insects, but got different guidance: "Light-seekers. Not evil. Crawled into the brightest light they saw." Her solar chakra is a light source; it has been open; they crawled into it. The troops were picking some of them out with tweezers. I was led to mentally lean back, ask the Lord to shine on us a light greater than our own, and suggest to the insect spirits that they go to the greater light. I got an image of them turning around, crawling out of the flower, and going.

The next instruction was for both of us. A chakra is like a funnel of spirals of light, so you shouldn't leave it hanging out all the time. Retract it inside your aura. When you're appreciating insects, first image a sheet of glass, and look at them through that. Some insects go to the light. You can't fault them for going to your light.

As I received this, I was reminded of a bat I once rescued.

My family was staying in guest quarters at Pease Air Force Base. In the early morning before dawn, Scott got up to go to the toilet, then came into our room and said, "There's an animal in the bathroom." I went to look. There was a bat hanging on the shower curtain. It's face was not pretty, up close like that, but I felt a quick insight and compassion for the bat. The poor thing was trying to find its way out of the building by following traces of light. We had left the light on in the bathroom, so that's where it wound up. I reached in and turned off the light; instantly the bat came under the door and into our room. Wyn said "Eeep!" and pulled the bed-covers up over her head. I got a flashlight, shined it on the ceiling, and turned off the light in the room. Zip, zip, zip--the bat flew across the spot of light on the ceiling. I walked out in the hall, keeping the flashlight shining on the ceiling. The bat followed. I went downstairs, out the door, onto the porch under the overhang. The bat followed. I shut the door and turned off the flashlight. Gone. Very smug feeling.

That memory came back in the context of the insect spirits: "Here is another type of life-form that needs to be rescued the same way." And that opened up a whole new set of tools I didn't have when I got here. How do you rescue light-seekers? Ask the Lord to shine a greater light on them, and they will naturally go to the greater light. And you can talk to them. Their I.Q. isn't big, but they do pick up thoughts. Like the turtle I found out by the car yesterday. I observed it, and appreciated it, and picked it up. Someone said, "A turtle usually closes its shell when it's picked up." Someone else said, "It perceived no threat." Now, a turtle is not a great intellect, but all living things are sensitive. I do telepath with animals quite a lot on occasion. They haven't been taught not to.

Any other sessions or sub-sessions that I ought to review?

Fred: I found a new pet--the mantis.

Ben: Yes, an interesting creature. But when you appreciate it, remember to image looking at it through a sheet of glass. You don't want that spirit to set up house-keeping in your personal space.

Someone asked, "Is this place going to stay clean now?" My thought was, "I don't know, but it's going to be better than it was." This area probably hasn't been spiritually cleaned out like this for a long time. And if there is a camp-ground down there with occasional Sabbats or whatever, it may be a lot cleaner than it was. I do think Carol was right about that devil type who turned up last night. She said she thought we disturbed him by extending light, and he was defending his turf. He came over to stop what we were doing and got himself bottled up and removed.

Carol: If what I think happened the first time I came up here really happened, I think the bubble of light ought to be all the way down to Shawnee's Market, because that's where I was stopped. I felt an active resistance to coming up the hill. Rocky, you remember when I came here the first time, I said, "I think someone does not want me to be here." And I meant it. I wasn't quite clear then on how much I meant it.

Rocky: She was supposed to be up here about 8:00 and I think it was about 10:00 before she rolled in.

Carol: I was just shaking at that point. I had felt lost, disoriented. I left late, but that was no big deal, I'm someone who doesn't care about leaving late. I've never had any ... I understand that people are supposed to feel afraid to drive in the dark. I'm not. I don't care about that. I came up the road, and I became more and more convinced, with no particular evidence, that I was lost, that I'd gone too far, that I'd overshot my road, that I needed to GO BACK. Now that's not necessarily out of line, but the weird part was that the point where I decided to turn around and go back, at the turn-around between the two highways, was within the lights of what turned out to be Shawnee Springs Market. Which makes no sense. The obvious, sensible thing to do would have been to go to the light--there's probably a store there, coming into a town, something bright--and ask, "Where am I? How do I get to..." I didn't do that. I turned around and drove ten miles back to the Shell station that I knew was at Route 522.

Loren: You felt intimidated by this area?

Ben: Like a pressure circuit?--a barrier or a wall?

Carol: I couldn't put a name on it. And then I got here. Honest to God, Rocky, that was out of character. I got roaring drunk. I sat down and got drunk on wine. Which I have never done in my entire life.

Rocky: And sick, I might add.

Carol: I was awful sick, hideously sick. And I never have more than two drinks, ever. And wine would be particularly bad. I don't even necessarily go up to two glasses on wine, because it's not safe. And I sat there and drank...

Rocky: A carafe of wine! Of course, I had my share.

Carol: But it was out of character. Now granted, I got snockered on wine, but I had bad dreams while I was up here. I just kept feeling that something wasn't right. What I finally hypothesized in my mind--I keep going back in my mind over this business of clergy being under attack. You've said it. Bruce has said it. I kept thinking about ... well, Henry. I started seeing Henry being here, and being attacked. He was a mark, so the dark ones come to attack him. I didn't feel comfortable. I was so delighted to see you, Rocky, yet at the same time something felt--Arg!! Something's wrong. Something's WRONG! Everything about it was so out of character.

Loren: But you don't feel that way now?

Carol: I don't feel as much like that as I did. It has a whole different feeling than it did yesterday, but I still think you ought to go down to Shawnee Springs Market with the light bubble.

Ruth: You think he's got a buddy down there?

Carol: I don't know what the range of the district supervisor was ...

Loren: Why did you call him that? Was that just a flip thing? Or is there a reason behind it?

Carol: That was just the impression I got. Ben said, "Oh, it's a devil. What's he doing here?" What immediately came to my mind was "district manager, district supervisor." All these folks are getting fwooofed to the light. His own people are disappearing. So he comes in to check things out.

Loren: It's a shame we didn't get his whole crew to go with him.

Ben: I didn't work that piece of it, but with his standing as a supervisor, the angels and ex-demons will convert him, and as soon as he's converted, they will have him call his minions. Then, because they're accustomed to his command, he will convert them en mass. That's how it works.

For example, Laura was laughing about this once. She was just observing. A whole swarm of ugly black things were buzzing around. The team had a big battle with something like a demon general. Heavy-duty angels, arch-angels and the like, were working on him, but he changed into something like a huge Minotaur and held them off. Bruce called for Jesus to help. They had the impression that Jesus did not come but merely turned his head and sent a thought to the arch-demon: "Assume your proper form." Suddenly, the arch-demon was much smaller and less threatening. He seemed greatly weakened, but he was assured that he did not have to give up his strength. What he had to change was his attitude, from malevolent to benevolent. He apparently did that, because he lit up and became a bright white light, and was immediately put to work as a demon rescue team leader. He called all his little devils to him, and they all mobbed around. He spoke to them and very quickly they all lined up like soldiers--got organized. Then Laura watched them light up, first one, then another, like a pan full of popcorn popping. That was what she was laughing about later: her mental image of watching all those little dark things blossom like popcorn.

Carol: Now that's got to be something she genuinely saw, because there's nothing anywhere in theology about lighting up like a pan of popcorn. It's not in the books, but it's a beautiful picture.

Loren: This is what I'm nervous about--exposing what we're doing. Although it's beautiful and wonderful, we're still neophytes.

Ben: One of the things I learned in the research business was expressed as "Don't defend bad ground." What that means is: "Don't overstate how sure you are of something." If you overstate, you are vulnerable. That in itself is a proper defense: not claiming too much.

Loren: This is what came to me. We were discussing what objective we're headed for, and you're nervous that it could become the basis of a system, a cult--marked out, institutionalized--and lose its meaning. That's not necessarily a cult, but it's still not good. What I got later when I was thinking about it is, we don't have to go that far. That isn't called for anyway. We can express what's going on, and leave our evidence, our hypotheses and so forth, with some interpretation, and pull out some goodies like you got here today. I think some of those implications need to be said. It doesn't mean they are to be engraved in gold or stone.

Ben: Like a research report as opposed to a catechism.

Loren: Yes. Research needs to be reported so others can pick it up.

Ben: That's why I've been keeping records. But I believe the command for this time is: "Thou shalt not create another religion." Period.

Loren: Well, that's what Edgar Cayce got.

Ben: Yes, and he obeyed that command. We do not need another religion. We have all we need and more. Research report, yes; catechism, no.

Loren: All we're trying to do is purify the religion.

Rocky: That's what Luther and Wesley tried to do.

Loren: Well, they didn't have all the tools.

Ben: Neither do we. That's what Jesus did to Judaism, and Buddha did to Hinduism. No, let's put out research reports and let someone else...

Carol: Is it cleaned out? Are we all cleaned out here? I think there is something hanging around.

Loren: Make our circle ten miles.

Ben: It's not a question of range. It may be that, in the clean-outs we have done, we missed some category, like we missed those light-seeking insects. And I confess I certainly don't know all the categories. Let's pray. (Goes through the steps of two-way prayer.)

Lord, we're still perceiving some kind of irritation here, some kind of unclean influence. I ask for assignment of inspectors.

(Receives: Protect first.)

Rescue teams, please encapsulate each of us. Extend a big light bubble to push out the area. I ask now for inspectors.

Fred: I just saw an Indian shaman.

Ben: Are we picking up some old Indian holy ground?

(Receives: Yes.) Thanks, inspector.

I ask that any lingering Indian spirits be sent help from the Light, those who can speak to them as they understand, to help them call on Gitchie Manitou, specialized people rescue teams.

(Sees that Carol is having problems) What've you got there, Carol?

Carol: I don't see a thing, but I've got chills all over my body.

Ben: (To the entity) Okay, leave her alone. She is not the channel for you.

Carol, close up your doors.

(To the rescue teams) Troops, please detach them from her; we're not going to use her for a channel this time.

Carol, practice closing and popping out dents.

Teams, remove those who are trying to communicate through her.

(Shaman, directly to Ben: Why do you disturb us?)

Ben: We're not here to talk to you; we're here to help you home.

(Shaman: I will not go anywhere without my people.)

Ben: Of course! Yes! Good! But there is a greater good ... for them, and for you. Look up. See the greater good, the greater light. Lead them to the light. Lead them to the Great Spirit.

(Shaman looks up and starts to rise. Then he stops, looks around and says to his people: "Come. We go." Many come to him and gather around him. He rises a bit more, stops again, and looks back at Ben. At this point, Ben receives dim mental images of wolf, hawk, bear.)

Yeah, Okay. All the totem spirits, too. Gather them up.

Carol: Get off me.

Ben (senses that Shaman wants to speak to us through Carol, as he often spoke through one of his people, ever since he died): No, not this time. Go.

(To the team) Escort them, please.

Carol are you closed?

Carol: I was trying to send a light tube up. Is that Okay?

Ben: That's Okay, but close all the doors. I'm getting a vortex rising now.

(To those starting to rise) Go and call the others. Call all those who were in shame. [This was a relayed message; Ben did not know what it meant. Later he thought that perhaps some members of the tribe had been exiled because they had done something deemed shameful.]

(Response to a thought from one of those coming toward us) Yes, it is like the flame of a camp-fire rising up. Drawing together and rising.

(To Shaman, who has hesitated at a level where the color is blue): Above all that. All the way up.

(Shaman: Above the sky? I told them the sun gives life...)

Ben: Yes, that's what you meant. But not the same sun. Go to the Source of the spirit-light. Look up. Go up.

(Shaman: Yes. He does so, leading his people. He seems eager.)

Ben: Let's release and let them go now. Whatever you're perceiving, hand it up to the Lord, and disconnect. We need to close the bottom of an envelope below this whole tribe they're helping up.

One more? Okay, pick him up. Close. Seal. One more? Bag him up.

(Team Leader: More coming. He does not seal the bottom of the envelope.)

Carol: I've got something kicking in the back of my head again. Same spot. I'm trying to hammer out dents and its not working.

Ben: (To the entity) You're not allowed to do that. Go up, leave her alone.

Team Leader, please ask a warrior to assist this one in leaving her.

Carol: Is it a child?

Ben: Child? Warriors, do you find a child? (pause) No, that's a different one.

Okay, nurturing angels to take the child ... gently. Disconnect, gently, lift, cradle. The child's gone.

Totem animals? All but one. Let's speak to it please.

(To the bear) Look, you're being left behind. UP! (It goes.) Adios.

Carol, practice not channeling, practice your closing. Stay closed.

Alright, Lord, is there anything else we need to do here now? (Feels, Yes.)

Teams, have you got this region located so you can continue ...

(Team Leader: It will take awhile. Gathering for centuries.)

Ben: Okay, centuries.

(Team Leader: Two different centuries.)

Ben: Both centuries, please.

(Team Leader: We will.)

Ben: (Tries to close session and leave it to the angels) Okay. Thank you Lord, for the help. Thank you inspectors, warriors. Thanks a bunch.

Farewell, Shaman and tribe. Go on up and live in the light.

(To the group) Close. All close.

Fred: I don't know what significance this has, but I saw him take brown paint and paint three lines on his chest. Straight up and down.

Ben: That fits. And the totem animals.

Carol: Was there a bear?

Ben: There was a bear. He was one of the last ones. They had to reach back for him. That was neat. At the beginning, I was inspired to call for inspectors, which I've never done before. Immediately, the inspector identified through Fred what we were dealing with--which I had no idea. An Indian shaman. An Indian medicine man. Like this ridge might be a place where Indian shamans worked.

Carol: Something is right here, was right here. I have been lying here sprawled all over the floor, half of me over here, half over there, and I was feeling like a wick. It felt like bdbdbdbdbdbdbdb.

Ben: Okay, that's why we kept feeling something. Not a demon, not a ghost as such, or as we would think of it--not a wandering ghost. A whole tribe of Indians gathered around their shaman. And not residue; entities.

Becky: I wonder why they hadn't gone on to the Great Spirit. Indians were spiritual people.

Ben: Yes and no. This was a shaman. He would be like a priest. This looked to me like a large group who had attached themselves to their shaman and his guide spirits, which were not that high. They still looked to this world, with some reference to the geographical--like, "This ridge is where we go."

Fred: It would be interesting to research what kind of Indians were in this province 200 years ago.

Ben: There was a picture of a medicine man on the wall in the book store. And some place around here is called Shawnee Springs.

Ruth: There's an article on the back of that map, an article that tells about the Indians in Winchester.

Ben: On the wall of the book-store, behind the cash register, there's a picture whose title is "Shaman". It is a picture of an Indian medicine man. Above him is a shadowy hawk or eagle. A witch doctor, shaman. They have Indian stuff for sale in that same book-store. That's what we hit.

Loren: Maybe it wasn't a coven, but the Indian spirits.

Ben: Both. Coven over that way. Shaman stuff here.

Carol: Yes. I think, right HERE.

Fred: I didn't feel an eagle in this.

Carol: The one last night I felt was awful. But I ... now I just felt wicking, like I was being a wick. Just now it was like a whole rush of people walking through my body. Now I feel Okay. But I'm becoming more and more aware by the half second that I've got a lot more work to do on calibrating, focusing and tuning. It's all very dandy to be aware of stuff. I'm increasingly aware with a non-corresponding sensibility of what to do about it, which has got to be fixed. I've gotten caught twice now in the last few weeks, being intensely aware that something was going on while my three-week previous brain was sitting there thinking, "Oh, no ... no problem, you've just got goose-bumps, that's all." And your head is about to fall off and your guts are exploding but no big deal.

Becky: I don't know if this is guidance or just an idea that occurred to me. When you're not going through troubles, maybe you could practice stopping and calling for angels. Discuss this with them so that you're not like the boy who cried wolf. Because I felt a whole lot more confident after doing it a couple of times, either for me or for someone else. It was more natural.

Carol: I have gone down the road practicing the steps: "Hi, there, just checking in. Not a problem as far as I know; I want you to know that, but want to make sure I've got the exercise." I haven't been applying it as well as I should.

Becky: It can be done very quickly. Then afterwards, well, did I get through?

Ben: All of this comes under the heading of what Jesus said to his disciples when he sent them out. He said, "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons" to a bunch of fisherman as if they could do it. "Raise the dead" ... Okay, we just raised a tribe of dead Indians. That felt like a whole tribe. They were not lost in the sense of wandering and not knowing where to go. They thought they were where they were supposed to be: they had gathered around their shaman; they had their totem spirits. This ridge was their medicine ground or heaven or some such. This promontory ridge ... I felt when I came here that it had some significance, or might have.

Rocky (gets a few books and starts reading from one): This mentions about half a dozen dominant Indian tribes in the Shenandoah Valley: Delaware, Catawa, Catawaba, Iroquois, Cherokee, Susquehanna, Shawnee. Less dominant were the Piscataways, Nottingways, Senelia, Senaydo, and Tuscarora.

Loren (reading): Winchester was once Shawnee Indian camping ground, in which Pennsylvania Quakers came to settle in 1732.

Ben: Maybe it's where they held their annual conventions. So when they died, what did they do? If they were Disciples of Christ, they'd go to Indianapolis, right?

Loren (reading): In 1748 Thomas, Lord Fairfax, proprietor of a five-million acre royal grant, lived near Whitehouse's--right over here, just below Shawnee Springs--until he died in 1783. During the French and Indian wars, Winchester was a center of defense against Indian raids. During the period 1756 to 1757, Washington was a young colonel commanding Virginia troops here. It talks about the Civil War.

Ben: Take a look at that. I didn't pick up any Civil War folks at all.

Loren (reading): Its importance during the Civil War is evident by the six battles fought near this town, by the seven times opposing armies marched and counter-marched through the streets, and by the 8,000 Union and Confederate soldiers who sleep in her national cemeteries.

Ben: But that's down there in Winchester. This is Indian territory.

Carol: "Stay out! Stay out!"

Rocky (reading): Since the valley was a major north-south passage, old Frederick became a battleground royal for contending tribes such as the Delaware, Catawaba, Iroquois, Susquehanna, Cherokee and Shawnee. In 1694, a band of Shawnee were permitted to establish a village at the present site of Winchester where they stayed for about 60 years. They and a few residual Indians from departed ethnic groups were the Indians encountered by the white man when he pioneered into old Frederick County. Of all Indian tribes, Shawnees had the greatest impact on old Frederick. Departure of the Indian from the valley was not of his choosing. He became a victim of the white man's alien culture.

Ruth: Could the fact that Carol picked this up be related to the fact that she had Quaker background?

Carol: I don't, really. I just went to the church.

Ben: We don't know that what we found were Shawnees. They might have been previous ethnic Indians, a minority tribe. [Or both, at different times: the Rescue Team Leader said, "Two different centuries."]

Carol: How would you know?

Fred: You're talking tens of thousands of years. And totem spirits.

Ruth: She sure was uncomfortable with Shawnee Springs.

Ben: That was kind of like...

Carol: "Halt!"

Ben: Yes. And that's exactly what you did.

Carol: Yes and ... shoot! I'm getting goose bumps again. It felt like just a wave of something. Probably part of the reason I was so fried when I got here.

(Ben also feels goose-bumps and says to the Team Leader: "How about putting a solid ramp of light around us, so they go up over us instead of walking through us?" Team Leader: Why? They're not hurting anything. Ben: "Okay.")

Ben: Another little thing: do you remember? We asked for a light-bubble around the house. We're inside the bubble ... and so are the Indians. When the bubble was created, it enclosed them too. They are not evil.

Becky: But they're lost spirits ... why didn't the angels pick them up?

Ben: I don't know ... maybe the angels couldn't see them. They were not radiating enough to glow, or bad enough to be dark, and they were all gathered together. They were lost but they didn't know they were lost.

Becky: But I thought the purpose of these light bubbles was to illuminate the entire inside so that you could see everything, just like when you turn on a light. You mean they saw them and ignored them?

Ben: No ... I don't think so ... I think it's more like trying to look inside a light bulb. I don't know what the technology is, but they were missed, or we were supposed to talk to them. And I was correct in feeling that we missed some category of spirits and didn't know who or what it was. Later, I started picking up on the totem animals: bear, hawk, wolf. Those were animal spirits that acted as guides through the shaman, and all that was part of their religion.

Carol: Ben, there's STILL something here! I'm having trouble seeing.

Ben: I'm not going to do anything about it, because I want you to take yourself out of it. Push it out, shut it off, turn if off. They can sit here forever if they choose to ...

Carol: ... and beat on the door ...

Ben: No, make your door thick enough so they can't even beat on it. After you've finished, I'll tell you what's going on. (a little time passes)

The reason you re-open is curiosity: "Are they gone? Open. Oops!" You've got to reach a point of non-reception, and resist the temptation to peek and see if there's anybody there.

Carol: To look out of the cave. Were you telling the story about the cross-bar [shoji] outside all of the Japanese temples?

Ben: No, that must have been someone else. (more time passes)

This is what's happening: more Indians are still coming and rising. Meanwhile the word is spreading. I just felt someone coming toward us and asked him, "Where are you going?" He said, "Go up place." He rose as he came. The word is spreading. There is a bubble around the house, and the angels have set up a continuing vortex, but the fact that more Indians keep coming is their doing, not ours; they're passing the word. (more time passes)

(Finally, everything is quiet and Ben does not find any more coming.)

That medicine man loved his people, and they loved him. They gathered to him, both before and after they died. As soon as he saw a better good for them, he led them to it. There's a song that includes the words, "Great Father of the Iroquois." He was like that to his people.

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